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Thread: Petition: Demand that IMBA not lobby against Mountain Biking in Wilderness.

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    Over the Hill and Going Down Fast el gringo's Avatar
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    Petition: Demand that IMBA not lobby against Mountain Biking in Wilderness.



    Over the Hill and Going Down Fast

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    Most excellent link.

    I was really having trouble understanding what all the brouhaha was about. This page, together with the information in the blue links on the page, explains it. The page with Rep Tom McClintock explaining what his bill is doing was particularly helpful in forming an opinion about all of this.

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    Petitioned signed.

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    MoJoMoRon bartman's Avatar
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    Signed..good post..thx!

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    prodigal son of Austin Teamsloan's Avatar
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    signed
    -the oracle has spoken.

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    MoJo Priest txduc's Avatar
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    Ditto

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    MoJo Priest codysoyland's Avatar
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    I really can't understand IMBA's position on this. They say it will hurt relationships with land managers. How? Leadership politics? Are they worried that it will open the door to further erode Wilderness Act protections? (A legitimate stance, but not spelled out in anything I've read). Are they upset that e-bikes aren't included in the bill?

    The text of this bill is terse and to the point. I recommend the 30-second reading: https://www.congress.gov/115/bills/h...15hr1349ih.pdf

    Does IMBA suck? I've been a member for a few years now but not sure I want to renew again (sorry ARR).

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    MoJoMoRon bartman's Avatar
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    Their stance is crazy, right? My best guess is that it's purely politics..IMBA
    's leadership are prob enviromental Libs attached at the hip to the sierra club and are against anything introduced by the GOP..they all need to be elected out..Wayne LaPierre would be run out of town on a rail if he did the same crap w the NRA..it's traiterous
    dboat likes this.

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    I have seen some explanation of IMBA's position that makes some sense to me. (Note I didn't say I agreed with it, only it makes some sense.)

    We mountain bikers do not have the numbers that some other groups do. We cannot generate the political clout to move the decisions the way we may want them to go. IMBA recognized this long ago. So they have decided not to go toe to toe with the ultra environmental groups. If 'we' cannot win that battle, don't engage in that battle. IMBA's strategy was to try to keep open as much trail as possible by conceding what was lost anyway and fighting for what they thought we could win.

    One of those articles described this strategy. That same article also showed that the numbers had been changing (more MTB) but the strategy had not evolved with the numbers.

    I personally side with STC on this one. I think the blanket closure of all wilderness areas was a gross overreach. I agree with STC that some wilderness areas should be closed and some stay open. That decision should be made at the local level on an area by area basis.

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    The way I understand it is that IMBA has had pretty good success keeping trails open by being buddy buddy with the land managing groups. "Hey we're all friends here" kind of thing. Maybe IMBA said, "dang it" when the Wilderness areas closed, but, "we don't want to upset the apple cart" by making a fuss. We'll quietly go on "yes sir yes sir" to the land managers to continue with our moderate wins.

    STC came in and said, "Fuck that! we're going toe to toe with the enemy. We're going all in because this is just wrong."

    But I'm going with STC on this, because you have to draw a line in the sand sometimes and get a little bloody to make things right. But I'm not writing IMBA off for this one philosophical difference. They do good too.

    This reference to "numbers" for each user group just reinforces my belief that the more people that call themselves mountain bikers the better. Better at local AND national levels. This is why the mantra of, "your riding skills suck, so stay off MY trails" is wrong. The more inclusive the sport is the better for all of us.

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    Mojo Prickly Tire brianjo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Tip View Post
    This is why the mantra of, "your riding skills suck, so stay off MY trails" is wrong. The more inclusive the sport is the better for all of us.
    You're right about that for sure. At this stage of the game, we need to have everything / everyone with flat bars and fat tires put into the "Mountain biker" column when the .govs start tallying numbers. We need everyone...


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    MoJoMoRon bartman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxagent View Post
    I have seen some explanation of IMBA's position that makes some sense to me. (Note I didn't say I agreed with it, only it makes some sense.)

    We mountain bikers do not have the numbers that some other groups do. We cannot generate the political clout to move the decisions the way we may want them to go. IMBA recognized this long ago. So they have decided not to go toe to toe with the ultra environmental groups. If 'we' cannot win that battle, don't engage in that battle. IMBA's strategy was to try to keep open as much trail as possible by conceding what was lost anyway and fighting for what they thought we could win
    Then they aren't sticking to that strategy by not engaging in this issue, they have actively endorsed the opposite side of the wishes of prob 90% or more of the Mtn biking community..I do not recall one rider who's said they don't want to ride Wilderness trails..not one..so it seems to me like pure butt licking politics by IMBA so called "leadership"..more like non..

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    Live Medium Bamwa's Avatar
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    The beauty of this bill is the government can't help but be wasteful. Can't just squeeze that on one page can ya?
    I mean would it kill them to save a little paper? Maybe modify that giant forehead of an upper margin? Why use



    quadruple spacing?



    and.......


    ----------delineation lines ------------?


    Check out at all those different fonts AND sizing, AND boldings AND italicisings! What the hell is even going on here? I can't even focus on what it even says. What if someone had to present this on an overhead projector? Good God, the horror!
    Grab life by the timbales.


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    MoJo Mother Superior crazyt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxagent View Post
    I have seen some explanation of IMBA's position that makes some sense to me. (Note I didn't say I agreed with it, only it makes some sense.)

    We mountain bikers do not have the numbers that some other groups do. We cannot generate the political clout to move the decisions the way we may want them to go. IMBA recognized this long ago. So they have decided not to go toe to toe with the ultra environmental groups. If 'we' cannot win that battle, don't engage in that battle. IMBA's strategy was to try to keep open as much trail as possible by conceding what was lost anyway and fighting for what they thought we could win.

    One of those articles described this strategy. That same article also showed that the numbers had been changing (more MTB) but the strategy had not evolved with the numbers.

    I personally side with STC on this one. I think the blanket closure of all wilderness areas was a gross overreach. I agree with STC that some wilderness areas should be closed and some stay open. That decision should be made at the local level on an area by area basis.
    thats fine then they should say nothing. Coming out against it says something else is afoot. I agree that they may have been taken over by environmentalists posing as mountain bikers.

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    prodigal son of Austin Teamsloan's Avatar
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    So, I just go an email from IMBA and at the bottom it lists some of their corporate sponsors. People for Bikes is one of their "Elite Level Members". So what do People for Bikes have to say about all of this?
    -the oracle has spoken.

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    Mojo Prickly Tire brianjo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teamsloan View Post
    So, I just go an email from IMBA and at the bottom it lists some of their corporate sponsors. People for Bikes is one of their "Elite Level Members".
    I think I just got the same email. Notice the header bar with the quote "We are all mountain bikers, stronger when we stand as one". Exactly how do they justify that tagline when they make such a divisive announcement?

  17. #17
    prodigal son of Austin Teamsloan's Avatar
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    Pretty amazing.
    -the oracle has spoken.

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    MoJo Mother Superior Tree magnet's Avatar
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    They must really believe in their cause to go this far out there and alienate so many members of the community they are supposed to support. I have my own opinions on riding in national forest land but I only need to think about one person when I voice those opinions. IMBA is representing people and they should be thinking about the people they represent when they voice an opinion. The fact that they are not only NOT retracting their position but are actually doubling down makes me think they really believe they are right.

    Let's be honest here, these IMBA guys are mountain bikers. They didn't step up to run IMBA to get rich. I'm not convinced this is as black/white as it appears to all of us.

  19. #19
    prodigal son of Austin Teamsloan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tree magnet View Post
    Let's be honest here, these IMBA guys are mountain bikers. They didn't step up to run IMBA to get rich. I'm not convinced this is as black/white as it appears to all of us.
    Normally I am very quick to give someone the benefit of the doubt. This is usually because I consider that there are other factors involved that I'm unaware of. In this case I'd normally think that because they claim to represent mountain bikers, that there are other unknown factors that are in my best interest that are shaping their choice. But this time I feel like I know the other factors and they are not necessarily in my best interest. Those other factors being that as much as they claim to represent us mountain bikers, they also largely represent the mountain bike industry. While we all would like to think that companies have their customer's best interest in mind, we have seen over and over that this is often not the case. Also, many of the companies that support them aren't confined to the mt.bike industry (REI) and have publicly stated their support for banning bikes in wilderness.

    I agree with you that the IMBA guys are mountain bikers, but I also know that money is a powerful thing and people often loose sight of their principles when blinded by it.
    Last edited by Teamsloan; 12-21-2017 at 04:50 PM.
    -the oracle has spoken.

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  20. #20
    MoJo Mother Superior Tree magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teamsloan View Post
    Normally I am very quick to give someone the benefit of the doubt. This is usually because I consider that there are other factors involved that I'm unaware of. In this case I'd normally think that because they claim to represent mountain bikers, that there are other unknown factors that are in my best interest that are shaping their choice. But this time I feel like I know the other factors and they are not necessarily in my best interest.
    This sums up exactly where I'm at on this issue. I can't believe that they would knowingly screw the very people they are supposed to represent. However, I'm also not naive enough to think that the big money companies don't have influence in their opinion. I understood things when they were going to pick their battles and not lose all their chips on wilderness access gamble. Actively going AGAINST it means that they must have a play somewhere else that they think is worth all this shit storm.

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