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Thread: Evil Bikes customer service warranty experiences - read and beware

  1. #41
    Over the Hill and Going Down Fast el gringo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmc View Post
    Summary of the article: 'Cool' company has a style/design sensibility that people like, but they're being drowned by warranties
    Sounds like Crank Brothers.


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  2. #42
    Mojo Funky Mofo rugger's Avatar
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    Just like Yeti and most bike company spouting bullshit about paint, stickers, etc automatically voiding the warranty Evil is full of shit and banking on consumers eating it. Consumer product warranty is protected by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. The company must prove the failure was caused by the aftermarket change made, they cannot have a blanket warranty void clause. Sure, they can, they can put it writing, but it's bullshit and it's just a way to game the odds of people calling them on the BS.

    I had a home warranty that covered my AC, the start capacitor went out on it (a sign of trouble to come). I replaced it myself, because I got it at cost and it was cheaper than the home warranty deductible and service call. A few weeks later my compressor finally went out...home warranty's approved repair guy came out, asked about the capacitor cause it looked new. I told him I replaced it myself...he said that voids my home warranty, I said, bull shit. They declined to fix the AC under the warranty, I told them to leave. This was in July and we had a premature newborn fresh out of NICU in the house, so we immediately called another company, had them do the repairs (weekend and after hours). The repairman said there is absolutely no way to determine if my replacing the capacitor caused the compressor to go out, it was installed properly. I wrote an intent to sue letter to American Homeshield Warranty, cited the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act and had an attorney send them letter for me stating the repair fees could be reimbursed or I'd see them in court. Within a week we received a check for the repair fees, original deductible, and original service call.

    Don't get bullied by bullshit "voided warranty" claims. All consumer goods are covered by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Commercial use items is another story, having non-authorized products and services CAN void them...but having a "non-Yeti" dealer work on a Yeti does not void its warranty, just like adding a supercharger, turbo, tuner, lift, etc to a car/truck through a 3rd party does not void the warranty on your car or truck. It's just like an insurance company denying valid claims, it's a game to payout less often.
    Last edited by rugger; 05-25-2018 at 01:36 PM.
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  3. #43
    MoJo Mother Superior FJsnoozer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugger View Post
    Just like Yeti and most bike company spouting bullshit about paint, stickers, etc automatically voiding the warranty Evil is full of shit and banking on consumers eating it. Consumer product warranty is protected by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. The company must prove the failure was caused by the aftermarket change made, they cannot have a blanket warranty void clause. Sure, they can, they can put it writing, but it's bullshit and it's just a way to game the odds of people calling them on the BS.

    I had a home warranty that covered my AC, the start capacitor went out on it (a sign of trouble to come). I replaced it myself, because I got it at cost and it was cheaper than the home warranty deductible and service call. A few weeks later my compressor finally went out...home warranty's approved repair guy came out, asked about the capacitor cause it looked new. I told him I replaced it myself...he said that voids my home warranty, I said, bull shit. They declined to fix the AC under the warranty, I told them to leave. This was in July and we had a premature newborn fresh out of NICU in the house, so we immediately called another company, had them do the repairs (weekend and after hours). The repairman said there is absolutely no way to determine if my replacing the capacitor caused the compressor to go out, it was installed properly. I wrote an intent to sue letter to American Homeshield Warranty, cited the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act and had an attorney send them letter for me stating the repair fees could be reimbursed or I'd see them in court. Within a week we received a check for the repair fees, original deductible, and original service call.

    Don't get bullied by bullshit "voided warranty" claims. All consumer goods are covered by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Commercial use items is another story, having non-authorized products and services CAN void them...but having a "non-Yeti" dealer work on a Yeti does not void its warranty, just like adding a supercharger, turbo, tuner, lift, etc to a care through a 3rd party does not void the warranty on your car or truck. It's just like an insurance company denying valid claims, it's a game to payout less often.
    Great post.

    I will add that adding a supercharger/tune/Turbo Can and should void warranty on specific driveline parts because they are increasing internal pressure, temperature and sometimes exceeding capacity ratings of drivetrain parts. Its when you dealerships add that an aftermarket air intake or Muffler/after cat, void a warranty that they arecompletely n the wrong and you need to report that dealership or run away.
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  4. #44
    MoJo Pope ATXZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJsnoozer View Post
    Great post.

    I will add that adding a supercharger/tune/Turbo Can and should void warranty on specific driveline parts because they are increasing internal pressure, temperature and sometimes exceeding capacity ratings of drivetrain parts.
    I was a service manager for dealerships and absolutely concur that any type of forced induction will void all powertrain warranties and that also includes nitrous. Seen it in played out in court enough to say dont do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by FJsnoozer View Post
    Great post.

    Its when you dealerships add that an aftermarket air intake or Muffler/after cat, void a warranty that they arecompletely n the wrong and you need to report that dealership or run away.
    Ive also seen dealers who are dumb enough to mod their own vehicles prior to sale and have their @ss handed to them in court. This is mainly because they withheld the fact that the warranty could be voided during the sale to the customer. Without a signed agreement or waiver, the dealer is at fault. I went through this on a saleen mustang i bought back in the 90s, and it came down to how much i wanted to spend fighting a dealer in Connecticut from Texas.

    I still LoL every time i drive by a dealer and see brand new lifted vehicles. Good luck with that.
    Last edited by ATXZJ; 05-25-2018 at 10:30 AM.
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  5. #45
    MoJo Pope ATXZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seths Pool View Post
    thats exactly what I said!

    and that is complete bullshit about the rear triangle. the crack was on the under side of the chain stay, right behind the bottom bracket, underneath helicopter tape, underneath kydex plastic frame armor, in a location thats basically impossible to hit against something while the wheel is attached. the fact that they would fathom some ridiculous scenario where this would happen is unbelievable. blatant grasping for an excuse. its like they are so prideful in their own brand they cannot make themselves believe that it wasn't my fault
    Seth, what frames have held up the best for you? AL? Carbon? Brands?
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  6. #46
    Hugh Jass MrMentallo's Avatar
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    He's stated that Intense is great so far. With killer customer service too.
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  7. #47
    dsc
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    Another on the good side - I was servicing the pivot bearings on my YT about a year ago, slightly cross threaded an awkward pivot bolt, and it totally destroyed all the aluminum frame threads. Emailed YT, told them what happened and that it was completely my fault, and asked them how much a new seat stay assembly would be. They replied, “That sucks! We just dropped a new seat stay assembly in the mail for you. Rock on!” I was shocked at how above and beyond they went (and at absolutely no charge). Really cool company if you’re in the market.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmc View Post
    From the article:
    "... So Walsh began looking for a new factory, and decided on an at-the-time unconventional idea: a full-carbon downhill rig. It wasn’t the obvious benefits that drew him to carbon; it was the lack of variability. While allowing for flexible design, carbon requires no welding, no heat treating: it’s a mold, and after feeling the scalding repercussions of poor quality control Walsh wanted as predictable a manufacturing process as possible.
    [/I]
    Someone who has never worked with carbon fiber structures might think that. Someone who has actually built and tested light weigh carbon fiber structures (can't throw extra on there 'just in case') - would *NEVER* say that. Variability is a HUGE problem. Most proven carbon fiber layups will scrap 20 to 30% of the parts due to variability. Inspections and testing are critical in making CF parts.

  9. #49
    MoJo Mother Superior notyal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugger View Post
    Just like Yeti and most bike company spouting bullshit about paint, stickers, etc automatically voiding the warranty Evil is full of shit and banking on consumers eating it. Consumer product warranty is protected by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. The company must prove the failure was caused by the aftermarket change made, they cannot have a blanket warranty void clause. Sure, they can, they can put it writing, but it's bullshit and it's just a way to game the odds of people calling them on the BS.

    I had a home warranty that covered my AC, the start capacitor went out on it (a sign of trouble to come). I replaced it myself, because I got it at cost and it was cheaper than the home warranty deductible and service call. A few weeks later my compressor finally went out...home warranty's approved repair guy came out, asked about the capacitor cause it looked new. I told him I replaced it myself...he said that voids my home warranty, I said, bull shit. They declined to fix the AC under the warranty, I told them to leave. This was in July and we had a premature newborn fresh out of NICU in the house, so we immediately called another company, had them do the repairs (weekend and after hours). The repairman said there is absolutely no way to determine if my replacing the capacitor caused the compressor to go out, it was installed properly. I wrote an intent to sue letter to American Homeshield Warranty, cited the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act and had an attorney send them letter for me stating the repair fees could be reimbursed or I'd see them in court. Within a week we received a check for the repair fees, original deductible, and original service call.

    Don't get bullied by bullshit "voided warranty" claims. All consumer goods are covered by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Commercial use items is another story, having non-authorized products and services CAN void them...but having a "non-Yeti" dealer work on a Yeti does not void its warranty, just like adding a supercharger, turbo, tuner, lift, etc to a car/truck through a 3rd party does not void the warranty on your car or truck. It's just like an insurance company denying valid claims, it's a game to payout less often.
    I want the name of that A/C guy.
    "living today like it is the first day of the rest of my week"

  10. #50
    MoJo Pope ATXZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMentallo View Post
    He's stated that Intense is great so far. With killer customer service too.

    Thanks, missed that. Thats quite an endorsement for Intense then.
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  11. #51
    MoJo Pope throet's Avatar
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    Even Intense advised me not to do any form of painting or paint repair so as not to void carbon frame warranty. As was implied in an earlier post that position may be based on fear of damage from the prep work, i.e. sanding, etc.

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    MoJo Mother Superior GTFOOMW's Avatar
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    LOL! - Ur fat.
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  13. #53
    Live Medium Bamwa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsc View Post
    Another on the good side - I was servicing the pivot bearings on my YT about a year ago, slightly cross threaded an awkward pivot bolt, and it totally destroyed all the aluminum frame threads. Emailed YT, told them what happened and that it was completely my fault, and asked them how much a new seat stay assembly would be. They replied, “That sucks! We just dropped a new seat stay assembly in the mail for you. Rock on!” I was shocked at how above and beyond they went (and at absolutely no charge). Really cool company if you’re in the market.
    I had an ex that cross threaded her oil filter. Went around the block. Killed engine. U r lucky, crossthreader.

  14. #54
    dsc
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    I know, I'm usually good about not doing stuff like that. I realized pretty quick (less than halfway in) what was happening, and when I backed the bolt out, a bunch of aluminum threads came out with it. It was really surprising how easy the steel bolt cross threaded into the aluminum frame, pretty much no resistance. And how easy it completely cut the threads out of the frame - I was definitely not putting much torque into it at all. Needless to say I was very careful putting that bolt in the new stay...

  15. #55
    MoJo Priest McRib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seths Pool View Post
    Hello everyone -

    im posting this to facebook, Pinkbike, MTBR, and will be creating a public facebook page to hopefully allow others like myself who have had experiences dealing with Evil Bikes customer service warranty claims, share those experiences publicly, in order to give insight to our experiences and prevent the same from happening to other people.

    MY STORY - (yes its long but read it to understand everything)

    Bio - 31 yrs old, 205-210lbs, enduro/AM/DH racer/rider. been riding mountain bikes since about 2008

    So i built my first Evil Wreckoning in early 2017, rode it part time as i had 2 other trail bikes at the time which i rode more often than the Wreckoning.

    fast forward to October 2017.

    it was a friday practice before a 2 day enduro event in burnet, Texas. i pre rode all the stages that day, didn't have any crashes, and on my way back to the parking lot, i just so happened to look down and notice a big super clean crack on the underside of my down tube, right in the middle between the head set and bottom bracket.

    as it was painfully obvious this wasn't related to a crash or indicated a crash in any way whatsoever, i wasn't worried at all that Evil Bikes would cover the front triangle under warranty. I call them the same day, set up an RMA, packed up the entire frame and shipped it to them at Evil HQ.

    I was working with Mike, the customer service/warranty rep for Evil Bikes. We talked on the phone, he asked me a bunch of questions about my weight, riding style, blah blah blah, he sounded thoroughly interested in getting to the bottom of what happened to cause the frame failure, and then i didn't hear from him at all for about 2 weeks. He would not reply to my emails and we had zero contact.

    i finally got a call from mike, we started talking about the verdict of my frame and the solution.

    this is not fabrication of words - this is truly what was said -

    Mike says - "i have determined that this was caused by a crash, because i was able to replicate similar damage to a frame using a baseball bat, which cracked the carbon and didn't make any marks to the exterior finish of the bike. the crash replacement cost will be +/- $650."

    ***are you fucking kidding me? you mean to tell me that the scientific procedure happening at Evil Bikes HQ to determine warranty claim validity is HITTING BIKES WITH BASEBALL BATS?!?!?!?! I'm not expecting a bunch of scientists with white coats and beakers with green bubbling fluids and charts and graphs and shit in the basement of evil, but sure as hell expect more than hitting bikes with wooden logs like a bunch of geico cavemen***

    i flat out disagreed and said that didn't make any sense, and that i also expected premium customer service when I'm buying a $3k bike frame. if someone sells you a $3k bike frame, they'd better be sure it was accidental damage before just brushing it off their shoulder and sticking you with a $650 bill!

    i was pissed off and said i didn't know what i wanted to do, said i would call him back later and decide what to do.

    i actually called back about 20 minutes later and said "you know what, just go ahead and send me my frame back, I'm not paying the crash replacement". and i could hear what sounded like subtle panic in his voice.

    trying to make a really long story a little bit shorter - we went back and forth, he didn't want to send me the frame back, he kept making up different reasons - "i have to ask the owners of the company if they feel comfortable sending you back a damaged frame because evil could be held liable if you got hurt, blah blah blah. basically trying to persuade me into paying the crash replacement fee instead. i had to get really stern and at one point threatened legal action because they were acting like they weren't going to give me back my property. Damaged frame or not, that frame was legally mine and their "concern for my safety" didn't mean shit and they just needed to send me my damn frame back.

    (what i truly think happened - is that they just assumed i was going to agree to pay the crash replacement fee, and damaged the frame more doing whatever space age technology baseball bat testing they did to make their determination, and physically didn't have the ability to send me my frame back even if they wanted to because it was damaged)

    finally, i get an email from mike (screen shot of email is included in pics) - "since it is christmas time, we have decided to give you a warranty replacement front triangle."

    ***so, only because its christmas time? not because you stand behind your product? but rather a national holiday that i may or may not celebrate since you know nothing about me***

    whatever - i was happy to just finally get a replacement under warranty..


    FAST FORWARD 5 MONTHS TO MAY 5th 2018

    my wreckoning with its brand new replacement front triangle had been professionally painted white, and the entire rear triangle and down tube has custom kydex frame protection, and helicopter tape. - literally a hard armor cover over those areas of carbon.

    yet another enduro event - 1 day event, 6 stages. we decide to do a full practice lap of all 6 stages before putting on our timing chips and actually racing the stages that day.

    one of the stages on a really slow tech section, i got awkward, and tipped over while stuck in my clip and pretty lightly fell on some rocks.

    right before we started racing, i look down i notice a big crack on my top tube this time - there was some type of impact mark and a small puncture in the helicopter tape. my front triangle was broken again. due to some type of impact. I talked to evil the following Monday, spoke with Dylan, who seemed cool. i accepted full responsibility, was very honest and forthcoming about the damage, and didn't expect evil to cover it. We talked about the option of crash replacement and my carbon repair options I mentioned I had locally.

    i took the entire bike to a local carbon repair professional here in Austin .

    He fixed the front triangle, great, and decided to clean the bike up. after removing the kydex guard on the non-drive-side chain stay, he found another crack on the underside of the chain stay at the very front of the triangle immediately after the bottom bracket.

    ***lets talk about this super quick - that underside area of the chain stay is almost impossible to hit on anything when the wheel is attached to the bike. Even if you 50/50 cased a giant jump, you would hit your bash guard, chainring, and cranks, and mainly the rear wheel long before anything came in contact with the bottom of the rear triangle. It would have to be some trick shot crash to perfectly hit the bottom of the chain stay, not cause any damage to the rear wheel or spokes, crack the carbon, and not leave any signs of impact. all at the same time. and dont forget that the entire chain stay / cracked area was completely covered with a hard plastic kydex frame guard and helicopter tape!***

    I took pictures, sent an email to Dylan, and called him the next day. He looked at the email pictures while we were talking, never really indicated it looked crash related, we created another RMA, and I paid to ship the rear triangle to them for review. He sent me and email with the RMA info along with a message that said “In order to grant replacement rear triangles, we do need the original returned to us for review beforehand.” Which I interpreted as a light implication that they planned on covering it under warranty after seeing the pictures, but just had to follow protocol or whatever.

    So it got delivered Thursday 5/17, I never heard anything so I called them yesterday 5/22. Mike called me back (yes, the same mike I dealt with before, Mr. Baseball Bat Carbon Frame Whacker Guy), and surprise surprise he says its a being considered a crash replacement not covered under warranty! He gave same really loose speculation to ways it couldve been possible, but offered no real logical explanation or any scientific evidence to back up his claim. Just another bullshit speculation, no benefit of the doubt, and me the customer is stuck with the bill.


    I didnt even get mad, or rude. I had more of a “im not going through this bullshit with you guys again attitude”. I said to go ahead and just send me the rear triangle back. And as a perfect little cherry on top of this entire dog-shit-cupcake experience with evil bikes - Mike says - “ok I’ll send you an invoice for you to pay for return shipping”… LOL

    ***At this point ive already wasted more time and money by sending the rear triangle back to evil, paying for shipping twice, and its still broken and I need to spend more money to get it repaired.***

    We ended the call, and he sent me a $20 invoice for shipping.


    –and that has been my experience folks. And in the small group of local riders that I know that also ride evil bikes, some of them have also had bad experiences which they have not been publicly vocal about like me.



    If anyone else would like to share their experience of a warranty claim with evil - please share!

    Attachment 12885Attachment 12886Attachment 12887Attachment 12888
    And they never even mentioned the warranty bring voided by the paint.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. #56
    MoJo Priest McRib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I stopped reading at the mention of a baseball bat. Unprofessinal to joke about that, but even worse if serious.
    Why did you stop reading at that point?



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  17. #57
    MoJo Priest McRib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seths Pool View Post
    update -

    so Dylan from Evil Bikes saw my post in the evil bike owners club and personally responded. which pretty much just added more to the pile of facepalm BS in this whole debacle

    Attachment 12892
    Oh well I guess it DID come up after all. They should have LED with that reasoning from the very beginning Instead of using it as a fallback in case they realize they fucked up


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  18. #58
    MoJo Mother Superior yosmithy's Avatar
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    Intent not to derail Seth's thread, but when I read this statement from the owner of Spot brand MTB's in youtube thread where a frame was broken. I had never heard of these standards, and was curious if these are old/outdated, or if the industry actually uses them?

    "-Although our warranty process is known to be extremely forgiving, the whole industry is in a challenging place regarding bikes and their intended uses. Our current models are NOT made to be used for downhill, freeride, slopestyle, park, etc. If they were, they'd be at least 35 lbs. The industry standard that carves out intended use is the ASTM Standard Classification for Bicycle Usage. Unfortunately, the Conditions (classifications) are quite broad. Condition-3 bikes are stated to keep jumps or drops below 24". Condition-4 bikes to keep jumps and drops BELOW 48" and speeds lower than 25mph. Only Condition-5 bikes are for more extreme riding. For anyone out there wanting a bike for extreme riding, the inference is to only purchase a Condition 5 bike."

  19. #59
    MoJo Mother Superior AntonioGG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yosmithy View Post
    Intent not to derail Seth's thread, but when I read this statement from the owner of Spot brand MTB's in youtube thread where a frame was broken. I had never heard of these standards, and was curious if these are old/outdated, or if the industry actually uses them?

    "-Although our warranty process is known to be extremely forgiving, the whole industry is in a challenging place regarding bikes and their intended uses. Our current models are NOT made to be used for downhill, freeride, slopestyle, park, etc. If they were, they'd be at least 35 lbs. The industry standard that carves out intended use is the ASTM Standard Classification for Bicycle Usage. Unfortunately, the Conditions (classifications) are quite broad. Condition-3 bikes are stated to keep jumps or drops below 24". Condition-4 bikes to keep jumps and drops BELOW 48" and speeds lower than 25mph. Only Condition-5 bikes are for more extreme riding. For anyone out there wanting a bike for extreme riding, the inference is to only purchase a Condition 5 bike."
    Interesting!
    https://www.astm.org/cms/drupal-7.51...-specification

  20. #60
    MoJo Bishop AlienSP's Avatar
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    First, sorry to hear that Seth. This is coming from a carbon rims guy. My customer service experiences:
    Broke a chainstay on an Pivot 429 (Al) a few years ago. Sent it off on Monday, had a new one installed and in my hands on the following Friday. Have purchased Pivots from Cycle Progression ever since then. Their new warranty holds up too.
    Warranty Information & Registration - Pivot Cycles | Pivot Cycles | Performance Redefined

    Spot Brand ran as fast as possible from my broken frame. Due to the great suggestions from this forum, someone hooked me up with Matt from Stout Bikes for a quality repair.
    Broke a Race Face Next Carbon crank this year, full replacement. The list goes on....Enve, yes. Thomson Masterpiece, no.

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