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Thread: Crank upgrade...

  1. #1
    MoJo Mother Superior RidingAgain's Avatar
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    Crank upgrade...

    Innovation pursuit... Just keeps on keeping on...

    https://newatlas.com/mg-tech-ultime-...rankset/55540/

  2. #2
    Mojo Bike Part Terminator Seths Pool's Avatar
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    After today’s ass kicking hot and humid ride, I’d gladly try one of these!

  3. #3
    Mojo Slow-poke Austin Bike's Avatar
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    But what are you trying to solve? SRAM already tried it with Hammerschmidt, which was a great product but it does because nobody bought it - too expensive and too complicated for people to work on.

    1x configurations seem to have solved this problem in a more elegant way that is far more serviceable.
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  4. #4
    I came here for the Tacos redrider3141's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Bike View Post
    But what are you trying to solve? SRAM already tried it with Hammerschmidt, which was a great product but it does because nobody bought it - too expensive and too complicated for people to work on.

    1x configurations seem to have solved this problem in a more elegant way that is far more serviceable.
    For the record if it wasn't for good 1x10, 1x11 systems I would have a Hammerschmidt. I've ridden them a few times and I really liked it. Great for log crossings and quick, non-powered gear changes. I didn't care about the weight or complexity.
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  5. #5
    MoJo Mother Superior Bigwheel Bart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RidingAgain View Post
    Innovation pursuit... Just keeps on keeping on...

    https://newatlas.com/mg-tech-ultime-...rankset/55540/
    Not really crank related but I just swapped my 1x chainring for a 32 Oval from Absolute Black. I gotta say it does save a few watts on the climbs, really well made and came in ano green. Might have to get one for the cx bike.

  6. #6
    MoJo Pope ATXZJ's Avatar
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    Seems like more time on the bike for improved fitness and a $35 oval chainring, would be a much cheaper and lighter alternative to these wunderkranks.
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  7. #7
    MoJo Mother Superior notyal's Avatar
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    Ok, I had to read this 3 times.

    "The folks at MG Tech, however, chose to keep things lighter and simpler. Initially developed by founder Bernard Git, their Ultime Ti is permanently set to a single 1:1.44 ratio, and is equipped with two chainrings that are shifted between in the regular fashion."

    So, if I'm reading that right, this is a 2x crankset (complete with one of those weird front derailleur things), but it has planetary gears in there. So basically, the chainrings spin faster than the cadence of your pedaling. However, you don't get the benefits of the Hammerschmidt of instant non-powered gear changes and the additional clearance.

    It's been a long time since my last physics class, but if I recall, energy in = energy out. Just because your chainring is moving 44% faster than your crankarm, that energy is still coming from your legs. It really just changing gear ratios. I can't understand what problem this is trying to solve.
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  8. #8
    MoJo Priest FatBoyOnaDiet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigwheel Bart View Post
    Not really crank related but I just swapped my 1x chainring for a 32 Oval from Absolute Black. I gotta say it does save a few watts on the climbs, really well made and came in ano green. Might have to get one for the cx bike.
    This is an upgrade I'm looking forward to experimenting with. Thanks for the data point.
    Currently 3.0". With hard work and dedication I hope to see 2.8" maybe even 2.6"

  9. #9
    I came here for the Tacos redrider3141's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatBoyOnaDiet View Post
    This is an upgrade I'm looking forward to experimenting with. Thanks for the data point.
    +1 for the AB Oval. By far the best thing is traction, I seldom spin-out on climbs. The adjustment period is like 1-2 rides tops.
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  10. #10
    MoJo Mother Superior RidingAgain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigwheel Bart View Post
    Not really crank related but I just swapped my 1x chainring for a 32 Oval from Absolute Black. I gotta say it does save a few watts on the climbs, really well made and came in ano green. Might have to get one for the cx bike.
    Back when my wife first started riding she would complain about peddling... She just was never comfortable. So I did some research and found out about Rotor Q Rings and bought her a set (three chainrings)... She loved them from her first ride... Said they made peddling smoother for her.

    When we stopped riding for a few years I sold our bikes. But last year when we decided to start riding again and I bought her a GT Sensor, after her first ride she asked about "...the special gear things I'd put on her other bike..."... Since the intention was to go single up front, I got her an Absolute Oval 32T... And she was happy again.
    Last edited by RidingAgain; 07-23-2018 at 12:36 PM.

  11. #11
    Mojo Slow-poke Austin Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notyal View Post
    I can't understand what problem this is trying to solve.
    This is my issue with ~90% of all of the "innovations" in the bike world.

    Different =/= Better

    Different ~= More expensive

    Different ~= Harder to service

    Different ~= Less time on the bike

    I like solutions that are easy to fix. I absolutely LOVE my dropper seat post. That is innovation that actually makes my riding better. But, I still have a rigid seat post in my parts bin because Different = Harder to service and I want to be on the trails, not screwing around with trying to fix that.
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  12. #12
    MoJo Mother Superior RidingAgain's Avatar
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    I'm thinking that to get to your dropper seat post there was a process of development.

  13. #13
    I came here for the Tacos redrider3141's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RidingAgain View Post
    I'm thinking that to get to your dropper seat post there was a process of development.
    There indeed was. The thing is, some of us aren't always willing to be the Beta testers for these things.
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  14. #14
    MoJo Mother Superior RidingAgain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redrider3141 View Post
    There indeed was. The thing is, some of us aren't always willing to be the Beta testers for these things.
    Smart.

  15. #15
    Shop Owner/Frame Builder CBaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notyal View Post
    So, if I'm reading that right, this is a 2x crankset (complete with one of those weird front derailleur things), but it has planetary gears in there. So basically, the chainrings spin faster than the cadence of your pedaling. However, you don't get the benefits of the Hammerschmidt of instant non-powered gear changes and the additional clearance.
    I think you are exactly right. But I wanted to add that your 2x crankset with its chosen chainrings sizes would actually be a *different* ratio that what would be listed on the chainrings....due to the effect of planetary ratio contained in the actual crankset. Complicated huh? And unnecessary....

    Later,
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  16. #16
    Mojo Slow-poke Austin Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redrider3141 View Post
    There indeed was. The thing is, some of us aren't always willing to be the Beta testers for these things.
    Exactly. If some technology like 1x or dropper posts come to the market, it is best to wait a bit before jumping in with both feet.

    Most importantly, until you have actually tried the product, posting it on a forum as "an interesting new technology" really only helps the manufacturer try to push their PD dream - it doesn't really help further the market. Actual use will establish products.

    And everything (like Hammerschmidt) that is no longer is use has a laundry list of reasons why it did not succeed. Some are technical, some are market, some are longevity. But some people should spend more time understanding WHY products fail and less time focused on the "next new thing". The majority of the next new things will not make it long term, understanding why they fail will help you make better decisions about what to try now and what to wait on.
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  17. #17
    Mojo Slow-poke Austin Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RidingAgain View Post
    I'm thinking that to get to your dropper seat post there was a process of development.

    Yes, which is why I bought into my first dropper after v2.0 came out and more companies began releasing their designs.

    Anyone that bought into v1.0 paid more, got less and had worse products.
    "A person can work up a mean, mean thirst after a hard day of nothing much at all" - Paul Westerberg

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  18. #18
    MoJo Mother Superior RidingAgain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Bike View Post
    Exactly. If some technology like 1x or dropper posts come to the market, it is best to wait a bit before jumping in with both feet.
    Sure is, but I'm glad there are thise who bite the bullet and try the early version... Because it helps the product producer to work out the kinks that then allows them to make the improved later versions — the version folks like you and me buy — better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Bike View Post
    Most importantly, until you have actually tried the product, posting it on a forum as "an interesting new technology" really only helps the manufacturer try to push their PD dream - it doesn't really help further the market. Actual use will establish products.
    From my own years of experience in new product development, I disagree. As does the history of new product commercialization. Introducing a new product concept at your intended consumer's grassroots level most certainly helps with future market development/introduction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Bike View Post
    And everything (like Hammerschmidt) that is no longer is use has a laundry list of reasons why it did not succeed. Some are technical, some are market, some are longevity.
    I'm sure. Developing products is one thing, gaining successful traction on a commercial level is quite another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Bike View Post
    But some people should spend more time understanding WHY products fail and less time focused on the "next new thing". The majority of the next new things will not make it long term, understanding why they fail will help you make better decisions about what to try now and what to wait on.
    People are individual creatures... With individual needs and preferences.

    And following your own earlier thinking... Folks like us who wait on the versions that follow the first actually need people who jump on the "...next new thing...", because them doing so gives the producer of the "...next new thing..." the ability to move forward into the future versions folks like us buy.

    Fact is... Folks like us should be thankful/grateful for the early supporters/adopters of new products.

    I know I certainly am.

  19. #19
    MoJo Mother Superior RidingAgain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Bike View Post
    Yes, which is why I bought into my first dropper after v2.0 came out and more companies began releasing their designs.

    Anyone that bought into v1.0 paid more, got less and had worse products.
    But their purchase support help v2.0 become a reality.
    Last edited by RidingAgain; 07-24-2018 at 11:20 AM.

  20. #20
    MoJo Priest schoolie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notyal View Post
    So, if I'm reading that right, this is a 2x crankset (complete with one of those weird front derailleur things), but it has planetary gears in there. So basically, the chainrings spin faster than the cadence of your pedaling. However, you don't get the benefits of the Hammerschmidt of instant non-powered gear changes and the additional clearance.

    Quote Originally Posted by CBaron View Post
    I think you are exactly right. But I wanted to add that your 2x crankset with its chosen chainrings sizes would actually be a *different* ratio that what would be listed on the chainrings....due to the effect of planetary ratio contained in the actual crankset. Complicated huh? And unnecessary....


    Later,
    CJB
    Yep. All this is doing is making the chainrings spin faster than the cranks, which is exactly the same as a larger chainring. To top it off, there are losses in the planetary set that actually reduce the overall efficiency of the drivetrain.

    "Because the system is a claimed 10.8 percent more efficient than a regular crankset at delivering torque..."

    This is just hilarious. A standard chain/sprocket setup is well over 97% efficient, more like 98.5-99% with a clean chain and new parts. Where are they finding an extra 7-8%? Unless this thing's an ebike, this claim isn't physically possible. Best case, these guys have no idea what they're talking about. Worst case, they're trying to scam people with a bunch of marketing BS.

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