Originally Posted by clsmyth

Now this right here is pay dirt. What are those reasons? If you can build a trail, you can mark/map a trail. Looking directly at all organizations that maintain trails in ATX. My cynicism tells me these reasons amount to nothing more than experienced riders keeping as many of the trails possible "on the down-low", which keeps them (the trails? the riders?) "cool". This is supported by attitudes I see from folks in the ATX riding scene. Of course, ATX in general is full of the "You don't like it? Fuck you, leave" mentality. So I guess it is to be expected.

Ok man...I give up. You don't want to make friends and can't take two seconds to think about what we're all saying here. You're new to mountain biking and I wish you the best but you have your opinion about ATX riding scene and I don't agree. My suggestion is get off mojo since this board is full of people that you just won't see eye to eye with. Perhaps you'd find a friendlier group in the road riding scene?? If I found out you were riding in my group I'd certainly try and drop your bad attitude at the first fork in the trail. Peace.

Originally Posted by clsmyth

Now this right here is pay dirt. What are those reasons? If you can build a trail, you can mark/map a trail. Looking directly at all organizations that maintain trails in ATX. My cynicism tells me these reasons amount to nothing more than experienced riders keeping as many of the trails possible "on the down-low", which keeps them (the trails? the riders?) "cool". This is supported by attitudes I see from folks in the ATX riding scene. Of course, ATX in general is full of the "You don't like it? Fuck you, leave" mentality. So I guess it is to be expected.

-cls

The "organizations" that maintain the trails are largely the same who are responsible for "organizing" the group rides you are bitching about. They are just individuals that love to ride and build trails. You can't expect them to publish maps and pay for signs any more than you should expect them to be responsible for every rider on a group ride.

Originally Posted by clsmyth

I group ride because it is the only way I can learn new trails in ATX.

-cls

wow! ever heard of Columbus? the mfer was an explorer..so just reach down, get a hold of that little string and give a little tug...then go ride your bike til you run out of trail and quit fcking whining about riders not holding your hand..jeezus H christ..you millenals are so pssy @ss jelly fish..

OK clsmyth - this is my last attempt. Several of us have reached out to you to help you learn your way around several trails, including the SATN. You seem to be pissed off because the one ride you attempted was not beginner friendly enough for you. Sorry. Everybody on here has been through a learning curve. I'm pretty sure some of those were much more painful than yours has been.

Maps - lets talk about maps on a trail you asked about - Walnut Creek. That sidewalk project was started 4 or 5 years ago. All mapping and signing projects stopped when that project started. It had nothing to do with "being cool" or 'keeping newbs in the dark'. It had to do with not wasting time and money on maps and signs that were changing. Sure we could have started maps and signs based on the plans for the sidewalk. The plans changed. The mapping work done would have had to be revised. We could have started the maps and signs once they poured the concrete. After they poured the concrete the first time they decided to move a bridge. They actually tore up some of the concrete that was already down. The mapping work would have to be revised again. AFTER the concrete was down for the final time, we were working with the City of Austin to plan the trails reroutes that are being worked now. Those plans have changed several times. Once was when the City would not allow trails in the flood plain. Another was after the permit was issued and the Forestry said we had to move away from several trees. Again the maps would have had to be revised. After we started building trails, we moved some of them slightly to have better flow. The maps would need to be revised again.

Keep in mind that maps and signs are done by volunteers. People who would rather be riding than sitting at a computer so someone else has a map or can follow some signs. So your complaints about lack of maps and signs are not helping you make friends. Especially with the way you are presenting yourself.

Maps and signs at Walnut Creek are being updated right now. Once the "drafts" are done, they will go through an approval with the City of Austin (Walnut Creek land owner). It may be months before you see a map or updated signs. That does not mean nothing is happening. That does not mean the 'cool kids' are keeping you in the dark. It does mean that volunteers only have so much time to give away and Government agencies like the City are not usually quick to approve something without significant review time.

If you look carefully, you might notice there are things people try to not discuss in a public forum such as this. Several of us have tried to get you to move some discussions to less public means. You have not accepted my attempts and it looks like you have not learned from any others' attempts. Those attempts have nothing to do with 'cool kids' or 'keeping newbs out'. Some of these lessons have been learned the hard way when really great trails were closed. Many people try to learn from the past and not repeat some of the negative parts. I hope you can learn from what others have already found an don't care to repeat.

Originally Posted by Zeke

Do you want trails full of walkers and dog poop?
Because that's how you get trails full of walkers and dog poop.

Thanks, I haven't thought about that.

Originally Posted by clsmyth

Bartman, I am in my mid forties and am not asking anybody to hold my hand. Do you have anything else to add to this discussion? We already went over HTFU.

-cls

then you have no excuse for being a puss...its not about HTFU..it's about the excitement of exploring and learning new stuff on your own..yeah, group rides are fun unless you have a pansy whiny rider which you appear to be then you get dropped..like I've told other newbs..keep your mouth shut and be thankful someone is taking you in..learn your place, Noob..

Here is the map you seem to be looking for - ArcGIS Web Application Maybe they keep it updated with your "ten minute" updates. If they don't surely you could spend your time to update it for them.

Those are *ALL* of the trails the City of Austin recognizes. It is up to you to figure out which ones are open to mountain biking, appropriate to your skill level, has a neighbor that booby traps the trail, too wet to ride, etc.

The AustinBike.com - Home web site has a good list of trails with a description of what to expect. It is up to you to figure out where your skill level fits into the low/medium/hard descriptions.

In my above posts I offered to show you around several trails. Walnut was one trail I extended the offer (on a Walnut thread). On this thread I offered to show you around parts of SATN. When I show people a trail I ride at their pace. I might demonstrate how to ride things they are not quite ready to ride. We may even session things so they learn a new skill. Clearly my offers fell on deaf ears. I think that time is better used sitting at my computer updating maps and signs for the trails the land owner wants them.

Best of luck to you.

clsmyth,

Welcome to SATN. I've also just become aware of the large group on the trails even though I've been riding the trails since I moved here in '08. I've yet to join the Crank and Drank group and I've only become aware of them recently when I ran into a group while I was night riding.

Hopefully I'll be able to join the group in two weeks when I'm not swamped by work and Cedar Fever!

Man oh man, I love the heat map. I can't wait for the 2015 vs 2016 to come out. I sure hope they do that.

Originally Posted by clsmyth

Maps and signs also promote accessibilty to new riders, and the lack of maps and signs directly contributes to a poorer experience for new riders. But it sounds like keeping trails "MTB only" and on the down-low is more important, because most of them are at best "gray trails" anyway.


-cls

This isn't Disneyland and there are no guest services. Whether a trail is "gray" or not there are plenty of horror stories where some busy body has pulled the NIMBY attitude on fully public (what is that white?) trails causing serious injury to riders.

There is no harm in having a little discretion in protecting something for as long as one is able to enjoy it. In my experience I have yet to run across anyone that denied trail location to another rider. Many people here have offered to personally provide guided access to you in this thread. Please don't pretend anyone is trying to keep you out. Loss of trail for whatever reason is heartbreaking. Look at what closing off Sunset Valley did a few months ago. It's preservation not exclusivity that drives any desire to keep signs and maps to a minimum.

I'll say it once more, be clear with what your expectations are and disappointment is unlikely. There will be less chance for a group ride to under deliver if what you are looking for is stated. The same goes for the other direction, if the expected ability is stated for participants prior to the ride, there is less chance to disappoint (or be chastised by those there were disappointed)

Originally Posted by The Tip

Man oh man, I love the heat map. I can't wait for the 2015 vs 2016 to come out. I sure hope they do that.

I hear you on that! I was just talking about this with a friend in GIS the other day.


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Let's be very careful what we discuss on here. You would be surprised where some of these discussions end up. Some of the people that have been on here a few years have seen it.

There have been some posts edited for their content. If you don't know where a trail is or how to get to it - ask another rider. Another rider is very likely to help you out.

If you have some crystal ball that allows you to find unmarked trails, keep that crystal ball to yourself.

Maybe you two should get a room?

cxagent- you are a patient man.

Originally Posted by Ernest Borgniner

cxagent- you are a patient man.

That's what they pay me for.

Oh wait. They don't pay me. I'm out of patience.

Old Mojo should choke new Mojo out. This thread turned pathetic not to be revisited.

Originally Posted by clsmyth

I started this by telling the C&D group they could all go fuck themselves, because of the poor experience I had last night on the C&D ride. However, I did not adequately express my expectations for the ride, nor did I do enough prep work to make sure my skill level was great enough to tackle SATN. The whole situation could have been prevented by increased due diligence on my part, and/or by dropping any of several times I was given the chance.

My apologies to the C&D group.

My apologies to the members of this forum for wasting their time and bandwidth on what amounts to events arising from a misperception on my part. And also my apologies for talking about stuff that should not be talked about on a public forum.

Neither will happen again.

-cls

Aww...c'mon man. Yesterday was so fun. Oh, well. Back to regular boring Mojo.

Originally Posted by ninjammin

I showed up once to ride as well. A riding buddy of mine flatted within the first mile or so and every one of you rode right by without even offering to help. I also passed you guys last night going the opposite direction which led to me almost getting run over by every person who blasted by. The group needs to organize and lay some ground rules before they piss off every other trail user out there.

Maybe you should stay on the sidewalk Mr. Yellow.

That may be what the GPS track shows for some reason, but I was on the trail down below the sidewalk with everyone else. This is not some conspiracy theory. I have nothing to gain here.

This thread should not exist at all. I could be wrong, but I blame it for the shutdown on the trail that must not be named. Consider yourselves fortunate that locals are so willing to risk sharing information about "their" home trails with everyone.

I'm offering a 1 hour no drop ride tomorrow, Friday - 5pm behind ATX to show folks around the trails. Please be self-sufficient and bring your own shovel and lime.