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Thread: Be a good citizen

  1. #41
    Goat Farmer. Middy's Avatar
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    WOW!

    That was incredible reading folks.

    It's my turn.

    Let me see... where do I start. First, we as Americans are resilliant people. Coming out of a tragedy like this is an amazing show of team work and coming together. I feel proud and fortunate to be an American and have the opportunity live here.

    I think that with these event unfolding we should take advantage of the opportunity, (The large concensis to return fire) to rid the threats to our country. I mean take out Sadam, Bin Laden and any other known terrorists. With extreme prejudice. Also including harborers and monitary supporters.

    One thing that pisses me off is the Jerks that are picking out people in this country that may look Arabic or like they are from Middle East countries, and threatening them with out even knowing who they are. I understand that there are many people that are afraid, and for good reason, but dont let that fear turn to hatred towards innocent people. I believe that we should find the individuals responsible and eradicate them, at the same time remember what America stands for and means to us.

    And another thing that really @#%&(W%R(*@%@$*ING Pisses me off is the price gouging that was going on. Mother (^#$ers raising gass prices etc. Oh man I'm ppssed. I was not directly affected by this but am appalled at the fact of this matter. Americans are pulling together in a time of desperate need and assholes want to take advantage. I think that all Americans should list the people and companies that were raising prices and pull together and not purchase any thing from any of these places. To me, these people are not Americans and what they did is Un American, and the people that participated should be ashammed.

    Thanks for tuning in and have a good night,

    Middy.

  2. #42
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    Originally posted by Chris aka Killer
    Of course I don't endorse this attack. I don't endorse unprovoked violence of any sort.

    "I could punch you in the head and take your bike"

    Art, Divorce Lawyer, idiot, and general slime
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  3. #43
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    Originally posted by Chris aka Killer
    Anytime I hear about a horrible act (a kid killing both his parents, a terroist attack.etc.) I always wonder what could possible drive somebody to do such a thing. That is all Carlos, Alan and I are doing here. You have to wonder what would drive men to do such things. The fact we do this does not mean we have sympathy for the culprits or feel that they are blameless. We have no intention of turning the perpetrators into victims. As Carlos said we are just looking at the bigger picture.


    Ummm, yes.

    This was a horrible act, and I thought very long before I decided to post any comments on it.

    I am not a history buff, but......
    When it comes to important events like this we must learn from it. Not just to ensure that something like this doesn't happen again, but to get to the deeper picture of the W-Five
    • Who
    • What
    • Where
    • When
    • Why


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  4. #44
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    First - Carlos - Nothing in any of my postiings on this subject was directed directly at you.

    My concern with trying to rationalize what has happened is that rationalization tends to minimize the impact an event has. We look at something, come up with a nice, compact explanation, stick all they bad memories in a box and move on. It's too early to do that. We should stay focused on the tragedy:

    - Think about the thousands of people who were trapped above the impact points of the planes and spent an hour knowing they would die.

    - Think about the terror the people on the airplanes experienced - especially when the planes began to bank into the towers or dive towards the ground.

    - Think of the terror the people in the office buildings felt as they saw the planes coming straight for them.

    - Think of the terror and frustration of those people who were stranded in the buildings because their wheelchairs wouldn't fit in the stairway.

    - Think of the heart-breaking emotions loved ones felt getting those final cell-phone calls from those doomed.

    - Think about the hundreds of fireman, police and rescue personel who were crushed simply doing thier job.

    - Think of the thousands of children that are going to bed tonight with mom or dad or both missing.

    None of the people above had anything to do with Middle East policy or CIA training of bin Ladden or lax security at US airports or anything. I think trying to rationalize what happened minimizes the impact on the true victims.

    Now a question for everyone: Had you been directly impacted - losing a family member or loved one in this attack - would your opinion as for what action to take change?


  5. #45
    Half-Fast Rider Strieber's Avatar
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    Carlos, My post was in no way meant to be a threat to you...I apologize if it came across that way. And my suggestion to keep your opinions to yourself was wrong and an emotional reaction to what I perceive as your comparison of our troops to the Islamic radicals. THERE IS NO COMPARISON. Having an elite unit infiltrate enemy territory to paint a target with a laser (BTW not required for nukes, just conventional weaponry) is done strictly to limit collateral damage and minimize any civilian losses. Think about it....The US military is willing to risk the lives of highly trained troops by sending them deep into enemy territory (That takes severe balls, so I take extreme offense at comparing them to the cowards that promulgate terrorism) to limit civilian casualties. Now look at what happened in New York. These assholes attacked and murdered stewardesses to allow them access to a civilian plane with civilian passengers so they could use it to destroy civilian targets occupied by people whose only crime was they did not believe in Islam. Chief was correct in stating that the vast majority of Islam does or never will condone such tactics. I actually agree with a lot of what Islam preaches. All in all it is a very peaceful religion. Those of us who condemn all middle easterners for the actions of a few are the same people who are the first to shout racist remarks or claim favoritism because of their race. What would be good to remember is the majority of people of middle eastern decent in our country would be dead men if they remained in the country of their origin. That being said....What happened Tuesday was a true act of war. The beginning of war. What is to avail itself in the near future is going to be ugly, REAL UGLY. Expect more attacks like the ones we just saw. Expect weapons of mass destruction to used (nuclear, biological and chemical). I fully expect that biological agents have already been released. We have no way of truly knowing until the hospitals become clogged with the dead and dying. Those who are trying to justify or understand the reasoning and feelings of those responsible are wasting time. We are at war and war provides very little gray area. You are either with us or against us. I can only hope this ends quickly.
    The purpose of modern government is to take money from the folks who save and pay their bills and live within their means, and use that to hire government workers; and to keep their power by using the money to buy votes from those who do not save and pay their bills and live within their means.
    JERRY POURNELLE

    ><)))))*> -----------------------------

  6. #46
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    Originally posted by TechniKal
    None of the people above had anything to do with Middle East policy or CIA training of bin Ladden or lax security at US airports or anything. I think trying to rationalize what happened minimizes the impact on the true victims.
    I can only speak for myself, but I was never trying to rationalize what happened. Just asking people to think.



    Originally posted by TechniKal
    Now a question for everyone: Had you been directly impacted - losing a family member or loved one in this attack - would your opinion as for what action to take change?
    Again, I can only speak for myself... but I feel that my desire for action would remain the same, and the main thing that would be going through my head is why did this terrible thing happen.

    I do have a desire for action but in keeping with the big picture who is responsible must be positively determined. Then these people and their organization or country must be made to pay. And pay they should. This tragedy is by all definitions an act of war.

    Please also try to note some of the good that is coming out of it. America and Americans are standing strong. Flags are flying. New Yorkers are banding together to work through this. Mayor Gulianni has vowed to rebuild bigger and stronger. If all this keeps up then the terrorists mission to terrorize the US has failed, even backfired! These people should be proud of their actions and their resilience. NATO and the UN are rallying behind the US. Allies and non-allies alike have condoned this act of terrorism.

    If Osama bin Ladin is to blame then his days may be numbered. With the number of countries rallying behind the US growing he will have less places to run and hide. More countries to put pressure on Afghanistan’s Taliban to extradite.

    Prime suspect: Osama bin Laden

    Pakistan To Help US Investigation
    BikeMojo.com Foreign Affairs Bureau Chief

  7. #47
    MoJo Mother Superior Chris aka Killer's Avatar
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    Originally posted by aLaN



    "I could punch you in the head and take your bike"

    Art, Divorce Lawyer, idiot, and general slime
    What traumautic event happened to poor Art to cause him to act in such a disgusting manner? Any ideas who may have trained him to punch people in the Head?

    John Banks is a laywer I bet he is a head-punchin bike thief too. let's get him!

  8. #48
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    Originally posted by Chris aka Killer


    What traumautic event happened to poor Art to cause him to act in such a disgusting manner? Any ideas who may have trained him to punch people in the Head?

    John Banks is a laywer I bet he is a head-punchin bike thief too. let's get him!

    Hmmmm John does have that new Sugar! Has anyone seen the receipt for it?

    As for Art I think that he was dropped him on his head. (probably right on that bald spot)
    BikeMojo.com Foreign Affairs Bureau Chief

  9. #49
    MoJo Mother Superior Chris aka Killer's Avatar
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    You are either with us or against us.
    Being United is a good thing. Supporting our troops is important in times of peace and War.

    But our support should not be given unconditionally. What if our government goes too far. It was only 60 years ago (My parents were in elementry school) that we had japanese-americans in internment camps.

    You say this wouldn't happen now, we are more sophisticated, more civil. Ask your grandparents if they felt we were an uncivil barbaric country in the 40's. At the time it seemed like the right thing to do. We were at War. It was justified.(????)

    What our country did in WWII far outweighed the Bad. We stopped the Germans and the Japenese and saved western civilization as we know it. Did we need to lock up our japenese citizens in order to accomplish the greater goal of winning the war? Who knows?!?!

    I am seeing much of the blind patrotism and nationlism that creates an environment where such things could happen. I am glad we have a society where we can question the actions of our government. I hope that never changes. I would rather be at risk of being attacked than live a quasi-police state where freedoms are restricted in the name of security. To quote Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me death."

    By all means support our Nation and its leaders at such a critical time, but don't support them blindly.

    I am proud to be an American and would live in no other country, but I am a Human being above all else.
    Last edited by Chris aka Killer; 09-13-2001 at 02:22 PM.

  10. #50
    Just another day in MoJo land! Greg's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    This originated from the office of US Representative Phil English (21st District PA)


    To show those terrorists that we Americans stick together, FRIDAY
    SEPTEMBER 14 is "Flags Across America." All Americans are asked to
    display the American flag either in their homes or cars. Let's keep the
    meaning of UNITED in "United States". Pass this onto as many people as
    you know.

    I addition to displaying the flag, people are asked to wear red, white and blue tomorrow.
    TeaM BiKe MoJo Member
    People don't stop doing things beacuse they are old...they get old because they stop doing things!!

    Greg Atwell
    STORM Race Director

  11. #51
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    Originally posted by Greg
    In addition to displaying the flag, people are asked to wear red, white and blue tomorrow.

    hehehe

    BikeMojo.com Foreign Affairs Bureau Chief

  12. #52
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    Originally posted by Chris aka Killer
    I am glad we have a society where we can question the actions of our government.

    That would be a democracy wouldn't it?





    Originally posted by Chris aka Killer
    Satanic Schwinn!!! (aka hellacious huffy)

    Gonna have to change it to aka Peaceful Pacific
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  13. #53
    Half-Fast Rider Strieber's Avatar
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    Originally posted by aLaN


    That would be a democracy wouldn't it?

    Or a representative republic.....
    The purpose of modern government is to take money from the folks who save and pay their bills and live within their means, and use that to hire government workers; and to keep their power by using the money to buy votes from those who do not save and pay their bills and live within their means.
    JERRY POURNELLE

    ><)))))*> -----------------------------

  14. #54
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    Originally posted by Chris aka Killer
    I am a Human

    Man you are just like Lance!

    I am a Human
    BikeMojo.com Foreign Affairs Bureau Chief

  15. #55
    MoJo Mother Superior Chris aka Killer's Avatar
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    Gonna have to change it to aka Peaceful Pacific
    No way man! I think I created a new word!

  16. #56
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    Originally posted by aLaN

    Gonna have to change it to aka Peaceful Pacific
    hehehehehe

  17. #57
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    Ah, Carlos, always ready to provoke you body into trying that downhill or technical section for the first time and now ready to provoke your mind to explore new options as well.

    Up for consideration:

    Screw corporate America, cut off our consumption of middle eastern oil, depend on domestic supply and "friendly" foreign supply (Mexico?), cut off foreign and military aid to that region(to Israel too). Increase gas prices, expect people to pay more, like they do in the rest of the world - car pool, downsize the vehicle, or RIDE YOUR BIKE. Let the U.N. decide what to do when there is a problems over there, not a unilateral and corporate driven approach. We could be a symbol of independence and ingenuity. Would it be a long term soluntion to Tuesday's events? Likely not, there will always be charismatic maniacs produced every generation. Would it reduce the possiblity that we piss off and alienate other cultures for corporate gain? I believe it might.

    I await your written attacks.
    Last edited by joetoeclips; 09-13-2001 at 03:37 PM.

  18. #58
    HAVE HOOD? WILL POOP!
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    Originally posted by joetoeclips
    Screw corporate America, cut off our consumption of middle eastern oil, depend on domestic supply and "friendly" foreign supply (Mexico?), cut off foreign and military aid to that region(to Israel too).
    no written attacks here. i think that the us takes 1 out of every three barrels of oil that mexico produces. i really don't know the specifics, but it lies somewhere along those lines.

    actual note: mexico could have been part of the states. when our troops won the battle of chapultepec and took control of mexico's military and gov't, the young new united states back off due to insufficient funds and resources to acquire that much land. it's tied in to way the texas border is at the rio grande and not the colorado river.

  19. #59
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    Originally posted by joetoeclips

    Screw corporate America, cut off our consumption of middle eastern oil, depend on domestic supply and "friendly" foreign supply (Mexico?), cut off foreign and military aid to that region(to Israel too). Increase gas prices, expect people to pay more, like they do in the rest of the world - car pool, downsize the vehicle, or RIDE YOUR BIKE. Let the U.N. decide what to do when there is a problems over there, not a unilateral and corporate driven approach. We could be a symbol of independence and ingenuity. Would it be a long term soluntion to Tuesday's events? Likely not, there will always be charismatic maniacs produced every generation. Would it reduce the possiblity that we piss off and alienate other cultures for corporate gain? I believe it might.
    Where would you ride your bike to? Not to work, obviously, because the economy would completely disinegrate and there would be no jobs. Not to the grocery store, because (beyond not having any money because you had no job) food would be too expensive. Not to school, because they wouldn't exist without the taxes collected from the transactions based on energy consumption. Not to the trail because you'd get shot on the way by some militant extremist bent on protecting his propery from looters.

    Like it or not, our whole country is built on those greedy corporations and nasty foreign oil. Eliminate them, and you eliminate the country.


  20. #60
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    Middy posted, "price gouging". gas stations are busnisses. busnisses exist to make money. if a situation arises which will allow for some insane profits to be made, they may take advantage. is it right? maybe not. but what's the bottom line? how much money, wait, cold hard cash, would i have to hand you to do something unethical?

    i once bet a guy $100 to drive up and order food at the drive-thru of a Burger King. the guy who handled orders was gay (unbeknownst to the guy i placed the bet with). he did it. the guy at the window was soooooooooo freaked! it sure was nice to put a smile on someone's face. maybe that guy, Ron or Pat, i forget his name, gets hassled because he's gay. how many would say this was unethical? the gambling? the act? being gay?

    TechniKal posted "First - Carlos - Nothing in any of my postiings on this subject was directed
    directly at you" got it.

    "- Think about the thousands of people trapped
    - Think about the terror
    - Think of the terror
    - Think of the terror and frustration
    - Think of the heart-breaking emotions
    - Think about the.....crushed
    - Think of the thousands of children" i did think about that. i didn't dwell on it though. i feel that thinking about something like this for too long would have blinded me with rage and fear.

    "Now a question for everyone: Had you been directly impacted - losing a family member or loved one in this attack - would your opinion as for what action to take change?" while i didn't lose anyone in this attack, i have experienced the death of a loved one brought on by the assinine actions of someone else. while i was pissed, i didn't act on those feeling or express them. i knew the rage that i felt was a selfish rage. i wanted that person to not be dead. but who am i? not much, when i look at the "whole picture". my consolation is knowing that they have moved to a higher state/plane of existance (this place and it's name will depend or religious orientation) that's light years better than the here and now. we only need to look around to realize that. most of these folks will never have to deal with the crap we, the still living know, but sometimes block out to make life a little easier, exsists. sure they won't be able to float though some sweet singletrack somewhere (how many were bikers?) but when you compare those great things in this physical world, to those in that gaping, boundless, beyond, who could argue with that?

    Strieber posted, "Carlos, My post was in no way meant to be a threat to you...I apologize if it
    came across that way" got it. no problemo.

    "And my suggestion to keep your opinions to yourself was wrong and an emotional reaction" this happens to everyone. the fact that you realize this, lets me know, you self-evaluate in the same way i think many people do after something like this happens. right on.

    "to what I perceive as your comparison of our troops to the Islamic radicals. THERE IS NO COMPARISON." the radicals kill, US troops kill. from our point of view it's impossible to justify their reasons. from theirs, ours.

    "the US military is willing to risk the lives of highly trained troops by sending them deep into
    enemy territory (That takes severe balls, so I take extreme offense at comparing them to the cowards that promulgate terrorism) to limit civilian casualties." i'll admit that it's a noble way to fight a war (hats off to those brave people) but i'm not sure nobility has a place in war, much less one fought today as we can see from what happened monday.

    "The beginning of war. What is to avail itself in the near future is going to be ugly, REAL UGLY. Expect more attacks like the ones we just saw. Expect weapons of mass destruction to used
    (nuclear, biological and chemical). I fully expect that biological agents have already been released. We have no way of truly knowing until the hospitals become clogged with the dead and dying. Those who are trying to justify or understand the reasoning and feelings of those responsible are wasting time" well i hope the powers that be, on both sides, know what they are getting into. nuking this toilet might not be that bad a thing when you think about it. personally, i'm ready. and neutral on this one until i get some sense of what the real deal is.

    joetoeclips posted "Ah, Carlos, always ready to provoke your body into trying that downhill technical section for the first time" with a rigid bike 'neath me, i shall walk through the valley of the sketchy steep, and shall fear no ledge. ride on descenders of the faith!

    i would have chosen "will" rather than "provoke".
    eyes dialated...mountain vision...sweet mind high as the moon!

    "and now ready to provoke your mind to explore new options as well" open mind, air filled lung, unfeathered brake.

    "Up for consideration:

    Screw corporate America, cut off our consumption of middle eastern oil, depend on domestic supply and "friendly" foreign supply (Mexico?), cut off
    foreign and military aid to that region(to Israel too). Increase gas prices, expect people to pay more, like they do in the rest of the world - car pool, downsize the vehicle, or RIDE YOUR BIKE. Let the U.N. decide what to do when there is a problems over there, not a unilateral and corporate driven approach. We could be a symbol of independence and ingenuity. Would it be a long term soluntion to Tuesday's events? Likely not, there will always be charismatic maniacs produced every generation. Would it reduce the possiblity that we piss off and alienate other cultures for corporate gain? I believe it might.

    I await your written attacks." sounds great, i wonder if Nader would have let us down this path. then again, that would have required an open mind and an acceptance of new things. maybe the human race is due for a nuke? we've become the Izod shirt of the Inteplanetary Commmunity and i think Carl Sagan just turned over in his grave and farted.

    TechniKal posted "Like it or not, our whole country is built on those greedy corporations and nasty foreign oil. Eliminate them, and you eliminate the country." i think this ties into the bit about the gouging. what if we all would have not bought gas for 3 days? 1 week? would the price have fallen? we have power but let others do the talking so we have time to watch all 8 seasons of Seinfeld in three sittings (i can hope can't i?).







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