More questions from the ignorance is bliss (sorta) section

[JonnyQuest]

So I've been trying to figure out a sitting position that offers me more bend in my elbows. After having adjusted the seat and seat post 9 ways to Sunday, and still not finding that sweet spot I'm speculating that I need to throw $ at the problem.

Shorter stem? Stem with different degree of rise? Riser handlebars? Different seat post that gives me 12 ways to Sunday?

Basically my wrists are getting sore, and I figure that I need more bend in my elbows --

:confused:

-Terry

[TXRAiDR]

What kind of bike are you on? MTB, Road, BMX?

[JonnyQuest]

MTB

Specialized Stumpjumper FSR XC.

[TXRAiDR]

Okay, that helps. Well, you don't want to go too short a stem, or you'll start to comress the cockpit on the bike, and that'll lead to more discomfort. When you're holding the bar, with elbows slightly bent, does the bar obscure the front hub? If the front hub is below (behind the bar viewing it looking down), your stem is to long. If the front hub is ahead (above the bar when looking down at it), the stem is too short. Did I explain myself clear on that? Let me know if I didn't.

What kind of handle bar are you using, flat or riser? Also, how are you holding the handle bar. Are you death gripping it or are you holding it firmly but relaxed. The tightness of your grip could be causing your wrists to hurt too. Kind of bend them while holding onto the bar. It might not require dollars at all, but time spent trying different hand positions and grips on the bar.

[JonnyQuest]

Yeah that makes sense, I will check it out.

I think gripping too tightly has something to do with it, however when I loosen up and bend my elbows slightly it feels like I'm too far forward.

The handlebar is flat. When I sit on the bike and put my hands in a place where I think I would be comfortable it's with the handle bars closer to me, or raised -- if that makes sense.

thanks

[carlos]

JQuest, what kinda riding do you do? XC DS DH Urban?

who much do you weigh? how tall are you? what size is the frame? how long are your rides? miles and hours? what kinda terrain?

what kinda bars you got now? flat or riser?

[JonnyQuest]

Originally posted by carlos
JQuest, what kinda riding do you do? XC DS DH Urban?XC
who much do you weigh?Too much! :D 195lbs
how tall are you?5'10"
What size is the frame?Medium
how long are your rides?Never long enough! :p Generally a couple of hours at Mac.
what kinda bars you got now? flat or riser? Flat.

[carlos]

ok, got that. forgot a few more.

if the bike in on the ground and you're not on it, how high is the handle bar from the ground? to the center of the bar is fine.

also, how high is the saddle? to the top of the saddle.

if you but the backside of your elbow and extend your arm toward the handlebars, how close is your bad finger tip to the bar?

[TXRAiDR]

Have you tried moving your saddle back some? Maybe a 1/4 to 1/2 cm a time. That would put you a little farther back and a little bit more stretched out on the bike. Letting your lower back/saddle take more of the weight. Word of warning though: Don't move the saddle too far back as to expose the seatpost head clamp. Those will put a hole in your shorts.

[JonnyQuest]

Originally posted by carlos
ok, got that. forgot a few more.

if the bike in on the ground and you're not on it, how high is the handle bar from the ground? to the center of the bar is fine.

also, how high is the saddle? to the top of the saddle.

if you but the backside of your elbow and extend your arm toward the handlebars, how close is your bad finger tip to the bar?

Handle bar to ground = 38.5"
Saddle = 41"
hu? :confused: Sitting on the bike with my elbows against my sides and reaching towards the handlebars I would guesstimate there are 4-5" between my fingers and the handlebars -- if that's what your asking.

Thanks.

[carlos]

ok, never mind the elbow thing. i think i've got it.

finally, do your hands got to sleep at the end or the beginning of a ride?

i'm figuring, that your seat may be moved too far back or your stem is too long as TXRAiDR mentioned.

do you know how long the stem is? if it's a Specialized stem, they usually print it on the out side of the stem somwhere. what is your saddle? kicked back, somehwere in the middle, or really far forward?

[JonnyQuest]

Hands go to sleep at the end of a ride.

ummm... my saddle is pretty far forward. I say that with a question mark, the seat post attaches to the rails on the saddle very close to the rear of the saddle-- pushing the seat forward.

I could not find a size marking on the stem. The specialized www site describes it thusly: STEM Specialized alloy, 10 degree rise, painted. Now that I'm all curious I'll call the bike shop when they open.

BTW -- what is your opinion of the Stumpjumper FSR XC? It's the 02' model with the M4 frame. The thing that sold me on it was when I rode it it felt crisp and agile...

[TXRAiDR]

ummm... my saddle is pretty far forward. I say that with a question mark, the seat post attaches to the rails on the saddle very close to the rear of the saddle-- pushing the seat forward.

Okay, so your seat post clamps near the rear of your seat rails. Try moving it back some on the rails. Some seat rails come with a little gauge on the side of them. Don't worry about that, go with what will eventually feel right. Try sliding the seat back in small increments, say .25-.50 CM at a time. It might take a while to get used to it. Also, and I just thought of this because I'm on the road bike a lot, have you tried rotating your pelvis any? Not like Elvis either. :) By rotating your pelvis some, forward or back (kinda hard to explain, at least for me), you can distribute your weight a little differently. Carlos, do you think that would help any?

[JonnyQuest]

I can't say that I have tried rotating my pelivs :)

I have tried adjusting the saddle in various different ways. When I first got the bike I put my old friendly saddle on, I have since gone back to the saddle that came stock. For a couple of reasons: 1- it seems just a hair longer, giving me more adjustment variety and 2- to humor the LBS owner who told me that I hadn't given a fair shot before claiming that "it felt like I was sitting on a brick". I tooled around my neighborhood a bit last night and it felt OK. I'm going to ride this afternoon so we'll see.

Carlos: The stem is 120mm. Which I guess is on the longer end of stems, as stems go. hehehe I have a long stem, can I be in your movies?! hehehe.

Thanks
-Terry

[carlos]

TXRAIDER, yeah i think with this new info on a 120mm stem. moving back is the way to go. i assumed he had a 130 or 140mm stem.

JQuest, looks like TX was right. move it back a bit by bit. also, 120mm isn't that long. 130+ is long.

but, we could use you as a behind the scenes guy. you could hand out the rubbers, c-rings, phone books, ticklers and so on. doesn't pay as much as the actors but you'll see the world, and then some.

one other thing to try, check to make sure that when you ride, your wrists aren't bent down or up. that need to be straight. i'll post a pic later. at the end of rides, you can usually look and see a fatigued rider with his elbows locked and his wrists bent.

FSR XCs are very nice. i like the fact that, for all the linkage, it is stil nice and uncluttered.

just make sure you swap out those bushings every year with a new set. you can get the shop to order some. they come in a little plastic bag.

[JonnyQuest]

Thanks to both of you.

I can't say enough how cool it is as a fairly inexperienced rider to have somewhere to ask questions and get answers that are not only technically accurate, but also free of condescension.

I rode yesterday afternoon and noticed that if I paid attention to my grip and hand placement I did not get as tired.... I still felt like I wanted to be just a little bit more upright, which has me still thinking about raised handlebars *shrug* but probably not anytime soon.
Thanks again!
-Terry

[carlos]

you got it dude!

ok, so looks like that's one issue, hand position, that's back to normal.

also, if you have some spacers on top of the stem, you could move them under the stem and raise the bars that way.

[TXRAiDR]

No prob JQ. Riding is fun, only when you feel right. Plus, not all of us were gifted or smart from the get go. Gotta pass that knowledge along you know....

[been_jammin]

for a newer rider, that's a pretty aggressive, i.e. stretched out and fast like XC racing, position

given that the FSR XC has a fairly long cockpit and an average stem length (120mm), I'd say you might be more comfortable raising your bar like Carlos suggested if you have spacers on top of teh stem

many times, however, steerers are cut fairly short on stock factory bikes - which isn't smart in my opinion because it limits fit options

I was surprised at the comfort difference I got when I changed to riser bars. Plus, I had about 20-30 mm of adjustability in the cockpit w/o changing the stem, by rotating the bars forward or back

for me, I like to have my seat fore-aft position set very exactly neutral with respect to the pedal spindle, this is the "classic" fit theorem and tends to be a good place to start... it's easier to show that explain - drop a plumb line from the bony protrusion on the outside edge at the top of the tibia, that line (which is perfectly vertical like a string with a heavy washer tied to the end) goes from that bone down past the side of your foot and is on line with the pedal spindle

somebody may have a spare riser bar laying around that you could try w/o having to buy - just post a question in the main raspa forum and on stormboard - I did until last week when I put mine back on my bike after experimenting with a flat bar for a while

[JonnyQuest]

Thanks Ben.

I'm less fatigued by reminding myself to loosen up. That seems like a duct tape / bailing wire fix -- I don't want to have to think about it. I didn't on my previous bike.

I'm not sure I completely understand "moving spacers on the stem" I do have what looks like to me a couple of spacers, maybe 3/4" rings?. I'll investigate that.

I'm more and more convincved that riser bars will make a big difference in my comfort. If I sit on the bike and put my hands on imaginary handle bars, a position that is a little higher than the current bar position feels like it would be more comfortable. Of course if I already have the means (spacers) to raise the bars a bit without spending any money then that's cool too.

As far as the fit goes, I have tried to follow the standard guidelines.

-Terry

[Greg]

I've also got an FSR-XC and I changed to the riser bars...definetely the thing to do!!:D :p

[carlos]

JQUest, the pic is a bit late but here it is.

if you have stom spacers like the one pictured on top of your stem, you can loosen the pinch bolts of the stem, loosen the top cap bolt, and pull the top cap, spacers and stem, and then reinstall with those spacers that were above the stem, now below.

if all spacers are below the stem you'll either need a stem with more ride or riser bars.

in the photo, there is no spacer above this particular stem cause the top of the stem is slanted.

hope this helps.

then check out the mojo mag on headset adjustment to finish it off.

http://bikemojo.com/mag1101.htm

[JonnyQuest]

yep, I have spacers under the stem. :rolleyes:

[carlos]

looks like it's time for some riser bars or a stem with more rise.

like ben said, a bar that's 3" below the saddle is good if you race but a bit too agressive if you do more trail riding.

[JonnyQuest]

Originally posted by carlos
like ben said, a bar that's 3" below the saddle is good if you race but a bit too agressive if you do more trail riding.

You mean I should'nt be flying around like a madman? :D

Riser bars or new stem is pretty much what I thought.

Handlebars, seat post, computer, new camleback, GPS?! It never ends! I've been thinking about a road bike, and fantasizing about how light I could make my old hardtail! I'm in serious trouble! I need a second job to support my habit.

[carlos]

a second job? there's always porn.

[Greg]

Welcome to the Club!!:p :p :p

[TXRAiDR]

I need a second job to support my habit.

It's not a habit, it's an ADDICTION!!! *muhahahahhahaha*

[been_jammin]

I've got 4 nice, strong Kalloy UNO stems - new or like new:
105mm stems with 7 and 17-degree rise, $5 each
also 95mm with 7 and 17-degree rise for $5 each

2 of these have never been opened, one was tried once while I was working on the same type of fit issue... got 'em on sale for $6 each plus shipping

Titec HellBent XC riser bars for $20, now on eBay

Thomson black seatpost 440mm long, 26.8mm dia for $45

[JonnyQuest]

Ben,

Check your private messages.